Group Leaders, Peru, and SoCal
Matoushin:
Hi hi! =) By no means was I specifically referring to you when I was commenting earlier, heh heh...nor was I posting anything "against" anyone...so if it seemed like it, then I do apologize! Heh heh...those that know me in person know that I hardly am one to argue in such a way. I don't really debate in terms of arguing against another person. I just share my thoughts on what someone else may have said, if I think differently, or if I think there's more to be said on something, and I think I was more just adding onto your thoughts with more thoughts that were in my head.
That's one thing I don't like about online stuff: people can't hear tone, and they may just take things the wrong way, or make assumptions about what was typed (these were part of the problems why onecross died, and why some people seemed to take offense about certain things, and why at least one person left rather angry from the discussions that were on there, as great as those discussions were...), or the way that it was typed, especially if one doesn't know typing etiquette (I had one parent all year that liked to type in CAPS ALL THE TIME AND WITHOUT PUNCTUATION SO THAT EVERY TIME I GOT AN EMAIL FROM HER IT FELT LIKE SHE WAS SCREAMING AT ME IN ONE BREATH BUT THAT WAS NOT THE CASE BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME SHE WAS THANKING ME FOR THIS OR THAT OR ASKING ME FOR THIS OR THAT. ^_^).
They were just statements in general. From what it seems like here, you don't seem like one to church-hop anyways or to not do something about a problem (hey, if you were one of those types, you proooobably wouldn't have been posting here on such topics here, right?). =) And I agree with you - there are churches that fail in what they need to do, whether it's in terms of leadership, shepherding, etc...and sometimes, a church may break apart for a reason that only God understands. In all paths, God already knows what the end-result will be. It's just a matter of how we all plan to get there...
Matoushin/Jason: Now, if a small group is simply teaching the Bible wrong, then there are problems. But realize that each person that is teaching should be qualified for it somehow, just like how, if you were the Sunday School Coordinator, you would choose Sunday School teachers that are suitable for doing the job well. Or choosing counselors for youth camp - I can't let anyone that just wants to do it, if they're not a Christian, do it. And even if they ARE a Christian, but let's say that they don't go to church much, don't practice living like a Christian, and don't make efforts to be like Christ...how can I let someone with those traits - even if he/she has repented of his/her sins, accepted Christ, and been baptized - be a counselor, a role model, and a teacher to youth about what God would want them to be like? Yes, there is a discrimination over who one chooses to put as a leader for those around that person.
And during small group, as a discussion, it's also not for one person to dictate the conversation. Everyone should have a chance to put forth their opinions, or at least form thoughts in their head. The leader should facilitate, but not dictate, the outcomes of their thoughts. But Truth is Truth, and if something's not right, someone should be stepping in, whether it's the facilitator or a member of the small group. If things are questionably interpreted, one can always go to the pastor, or extensively google it up and compare thoughts (but you all know how fallible that internet can be...heh heh...). We're humans, and we can't be perfect, can't be exactly right, at every moment of our lives. But small group leaders do have a responsibilty to extensively understand and research what it is that they are teaching, and even who they are teaching, and not just throwing it together last minute. If they don't fulfill their responsibilities in doing that, it may hurt those very ones that they are trying to help.
Jason/Thomas: You two are going to Peru this weekend!!! How exciting! Good luck, to both of you, on your endeavors in South America! May you find joy in serving the Lord there as you've had here in North America, heh heh, and if there are mosquitos...be careful! ^_^
On the topic of "Norcal > Socal":
SoCal Rocks. Sunnier dispositions and weather, and a happier climate all around. =) We're close to the beaches (snorkeling, kayaking, swimming, surfing!), mountains (snow, fishing, lakes, hiking), cities (for shopping - am I the only girl currently posting on this? If so, I expect no sympathy for shopping, ha ha...- and playing), and close to drive to national parks (hiking, climbing, river rafting, camping!!!), another country (Mexico), another state (Las Vegas - mmm...buffets...Circus Circus...), and a million other good things. ^_^
NorCal is a little too dreary for me. Been there...and though I DO like it (the charm of Fisherman's Wharf and buying fresh crab from Cantonese people who gave us a discount simply because we spoke Cantonese too, and meandering in Chinatown, as touristy as it is, was priceless!), I wouldn't want to live there. Sorry NorCal'ers. =)
Thus, for me, it would have to be: "SoCal > NorCal" ^_^
Hi hi! =) By no means was I specifically referring to you when I was commenting earlier, heh heh...nor was I posting anything "against" anyone...so if it seemed like it, then I do apologize! Heh heh...those that know me in person know that I hardly am one to argue in such a way. I don't really debate in terms of arguing against another person. I just share my thoughts on what someone else may have said, if I think differently, or if I think there's more to be said on something, and I think I was more just adding onto your thoughts with more thoughts that were in my head.
That's one thing I don't like about online stuff: people can't hear tone, and they may just take things the wrong way, or make assumptions about what was typed (these were part of the problems why onecross died, and why some people seemed to take offense about certain things, and why at least one person left rather angry from the discussions that were on there, as great as those discussions were...), or the way that it was typed, especially if one doesn't know typing etiquette (I had one parent all year that liked to type in CAPS ALL THE TIME AND WITHOUT PUNCTUATION SO THAT EVERY TIME I GOT AN EMAIL FROM HER IT FELT LIKE SHE WAS SCREAMING AT ME IN ONE BREATH BUT THAT WAS NOT THE CASE BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME SHE WAS THANKING ME FOR THIS OR THAT OR ASKING ME FOR THIS OR THAT. ^_^).
They were just statements in general. From what it seems like here, you don't seem like one to church-hop anyways or to not do something about a problem (hey, if you were one of those types, you proooobably wouldn't have been posting here on such topics here, right?). =) And I agree with you - there are churches that fail in what they need to do, whether it's in terms of leadership, shepherding, etc...and sometimes, a church may break apart for a reason that only God understands. In all paths, God already knows what the end-result will be. It's just a matter of how we all plan to get there...
Matoushin/Jason: Now, if a small group is simply teaching the Bible wrong, then there are problems. But realize that each person that is teaching should be qualified for it somehow, just like how, if you were the Sunday School Coordinator, you would choose Sunday School teachers that are suitable for doing the job well. Or choosing counselors for youth camp - I can't let anyone that just wants to do it, if they're not a Christian, do it. And even if they ARE a Christian, but let's say that they don't go to church much, don't practice living like a Christian, and don't make efforts to be like Christ...how can I let someone with those traits - even if he/she has repented of his/her sins, accepted Christ, and been baptized - be a counselor, a role model, and a teacher to youth about what God would want them to be like? Yes, there is a discrimination over who one chooses to put as a leader for those around that person.
And during small group, as a discussion, it's also not for one person to dictate the conversation. Everyone should have a chance to put forth their opinions, or at least form thoughts in their head. The leader should facilitate, but not dictate, the outcomes of their thoughts. But Truth is Truth, and if something's not right, someone should be stepping in, whether it's the facilitator or a member of the small group. If things are questionably interpreted, one can always go to the pastor, or extensively google it up and compare thoughts (but you all know how fallible that internet can be...heh heh...). We're humans, and we can't be perfect, can't be exactly right, at every moment of our lives. But small group leaders do have a responsibilty to extensively understand and research what it is that they are teaching, and even who they are teaching, and not just throwing it together last minute. If they don't fulfill their responsibilities in doing that, it may hurt those very ones that they are trying to help.
Jason/Thomas: You two are going to Peru this weekend!!! How exciting! Good luck, to both of you, on your endeavors in South America! May you find joy in serving the Lord there as you've had here in North America, heh heh, and if there are mosquitos...be careful! ^_^
On the topic of "Norcal > Socal":
SoCal Rocks. Sunnier dispositions and weather, and a happier climate all around. =) We're close to the beaches (snorkeling, kayaking, swimming, surfing!), mountains (snow, fishing, lakes, hiking), cities (for shopping - am I the only girl currently posting on this? If so, I expect no sympathy for shopping, ha ha...- and playing), and close to drive to national parks (hiking, climbing, river rafting, camping!!!), another country (Mexico), another state (Las Vegas - mmm...buffets...Circus Circus...), and a million other good things. ^_^
NorCal is a little too dreary for me. Been there...and though I DO like it (the charm of Fisherman's Wharf and buying fresh crab from Cantonese people who gave us a discount simply because we spoke Cantonese too, and meandering in Chinatown, as touristy as it is, was priceless!), I wouldn't want to live there. Sorry NorCal'ers. =)
Thus, for me, it would have to be: "SoCal > NorCal" ^_^
posted by Gummy at 7/11/2005 08:40:00 AM
1 Comments:
Hi. A few comments.
1) I find the dinosaur comics dumb, but that's just me. Haha. My roommate would always be cracking up reading them, and I'd always be rolling my eyes. =P I just don't get them. Haha. =]
2) More seriously, I've been reading you guys' thread on small groups, and I just thought I'd add my two cents. =] I led my first small group as a senior in high school and have been involved with small groups every year since then, so I definitely have a heart for the small group ministry.
Both Matoushin and Gummy bring up really good points, so there's honestly not much for me to add except to say that I understand where both are coming from. Perhaps it's just me and my way of viewing things, but the two views don't seem all that contradictory to me. Let me try to put together my thoughts. (On a side note, it's intimidating posting here because everyone rights rather eloquently, with proper grammar and punctuation. =P I'm used to writing off the top of my head, with my poor punctuation and absolutely no capitalization. =D)
Without giving my whole life story, small groups have taught me a lot. It's taught me a lot about dealing with people and how to learn from others' experiences. Being in a small group and leading a small group has also taught me how to listen and how to be open and vulnerable. However, I realize that this has not been the focus of the small group debate here at calbht. The focus of this conversation has been the teaching / Bible study aspect of small groups.
I'll begin by saying that studying the Word in my various small groups has greatly enriched my spiritual life and has taught me so many things that I would not have learned by studying the Word on my own.
That being said, I understand some people's concerns. Many feel that small group leaders (generally) are not Bible scholars. They have not been trained in studying the Word. There is a chance that the small group may totally misinterpret a passage. I will totally agree to this. I had the blessing of co-coordinating the small group ministry at AACF this past year, and my biggest fear (by far) was misinterpreting the Word of God and leading the small group leaders astray. To be honest, there were a few (if not several) times when while leading discussion, I realized that I was interpreting the passage incorrectly. God was gracious, though, and provided awesome people in the small group to lovingly correct me.
Initially these incidents were huge blows to my ego. "Man, here I am supposed to be leading and I'm not even getting everything right." Over time, however, I began to view myself different. I began to realize that I'm definitely no Bible scholar. I'm definitely not trained in studying the Word. When I stopped thinking of myself as such, my whole experience changed. I realized that I was going to make mistakes in interpreting the Word. I began coming to small group meetings no longer as a leader per se, but more as a peer. Yes, I understood my responsibility to be prepared and to study as much as I can in order to facilitate discussion, but no longer did I come with the notion that I had to have every answer.
For me, small groups are a place to come and parse through the Word of God with fellow brothers and sisters. I do not come to small groups expecting to be preached at. I expect to ask questions, to develop my own convictions, and to make mistakes. (I totally understand that people view small groups differently, and I accept that too. Other people view small groups as a place to be equipped in knowledge of the Word. At least in my case, I see myself getting that from Sunday sermons and through Sunday school classes in which pastors and teachers that are more experienced in handling the Word of God are able to more capably teach from the Bible.)
I grew up in a Christian home and have been saved for most of my life. However, I did not begin to develop a love for God's Word until I was able to discuss it with friends. The biggest change came two years ago when I began to go through the book of Isaiah with my friend, Tim. Neither of us was the leader; we freely asked questions when we were confused, and we freely shared our interpretations of the passage. Let me tell you, it was during that time when I was able to actively study the Word of God for myself rather than have it preached at me that I discovered the Bible to be what it is - the Word of God. And I realize that this opinion isn't so much based on anything in particular other than my own personal experience ... but I totally see the value in small group Bible studies. I could go on and on about my experiences in small groups and how God's taught me so much through them. Feel free to ask me about it if you're interested.
Yes, there is a danger in having the wrong interpretation of things, but I like what Gummy said. "Truth is truth." The Word of God, in most cases, speaks for itself. In the cases of confusion, I believe it is the leader's responsibility to take the initiative in studying or asking a pastor or someone with more experience.
Bottom line, I believe that where the Word of God is sown, God bears fruit. When God's Word is taught, He will bless it (if the intentions are good, and perhaps even when they're not.) As I've studied the Word, I've seen more and more how God uses broken vessels for His glory. In my own life, I've seen God use me, the untrained non-Bible scholar that I am ... and I've seen God use brothers of mine who also do not have much experience studying God's Word. God's used them to instill in me a greater love for His Word. God uses anyone ... Bible scholar, new Christian, whomever He wants.
THAT BEING SAID (this is long =P), Matoushin brings up good points as well. The church is an AWESOME resource that few Christians fully tap into. Wow. I'm suddenly tired, so I guess maybe I'll finish later (or probably not). But yes, I do believe the church has a responsibility in teaching the Word, and in helping believers interpret it. Still, I do not think we ought to dismiss small groups altogether as worthless ... Saying that small groups are wrong (and I know no one is saying this) is like saying studying the Word of God on your own is wrong. Yes, I understand that's not people's point ... that people's MAIN source of feeding from the Word should be done by the church ... and, yes, I agree with that for the most part. Still, I'm a huge proponent of small groups. If small groups come into conflict with the church though, I will always yield to the church.
Sorry. I'm rambling a lot. A LOT. Oh man. =P
-bj
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